Go Back Report # 456
02-15-1963

02-15-1963  

WILLOW GROVE SIGHTING 15/2/63

Tape-recorded interview with Mr. Charles Brew by Mr. Charles Norris,

President, Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society.

Question:         What time did you make the sighting, Mr. Brew?        

Answer:           It would be about 10 past 7, it was. Yes, 10 past 7, definitely.          

Q.                     What were you doing at the time?     

A.                     We were milking and halfway—approximately halfway—through, I'd say.     

Q.                     Yes. How did you first notice the object come down? 

A.                     Well, I was lookin' out over the cows as I referred to you a while ago and it

                        came down steeply out of the east. Oh, I'd say at about 45 degrees.           

Q.                     And what did the object look like when you first saw it? What were your

                        reactions?       

A.                     Well, I thought it was a helicopter, at first.    

Q.                     What made you think that?    

A.                     On account of it being round and I've naturally never, ever seen one of these

                        turnouts before. That would be asking too much!      

Q.                     Yes, and what did you see when the object came fairly close to you?           

A.                     Oh well, I noticed first of all the coloring and after that, the top 2/3 when it
                        came down and hovered, was stationary, and the lower section was turning in
                        an anti-clockwise direction--noticed that—and also, as I pointed out, those
                        scoop-like protrusions around the side which I think was making the noise--
                        the swishing noise, that is.     

Q.                     And at this stage, how far was the object from you? 

A.                     Oh, I'd say 75 feet away--perhaps a little further-- and about the same
                        distance up in the air. 

Q.                     How did you calculate the height of the object?         

A.                     Well, I calculated the height by those trees.   I'd say they were approximately
                        75 feet high.  It might have been a shade higher than those, of course.       

Q.                     Yes, that would be quite right I would say. Now once again, getting back to
                        the general appearance of the object, can you describe the top part of the
                        object?

A.                     Well, the top, the very top section, the dome section, that is, was sort of what
                        we would call Perspex1 or glass material or whatever you like, but whatever that
                        was, I couldn't say. The middle section, that is the middle section between the
                        Perspex and the part that was rotating, was sort of battleship grey and looked
                        to me like some bit of metallic material.  I couldn't say for sure, of course, and
                        the bottom, as I said, was rotating on an anti-clockwise direction. Well, I
                        couldn't say what sort of material it was definitely made of but the Air Force
                        chaps asked me that too.  As near as I could say, it seemed something [like]
                       
the same material as [used in] motorcars. Just by lookin' at it, you know.     

Q.                     What was the size of the object?       

A.                     Well, I’d say, as near as I could judge, about 25 feet across—perhaps a little
                        more — if anything a little more.         

Q.                     Well, what about the height? 

A.                     Oh, I'd say, overall, about 9 feet, as near as I could judge. Might have been a
                        bit more, but of course it's hard to judge when you only see a thing for a few
                        seconds, but I'd say 9 or 10 feet.       

Q.                     You didn’t actually see anybody in it through what appeared to be the glass
                        portion on the top, on the dome?       

A.                     No, on a clear day you may have but, as I said, it was raining heavy and no, I
                        can’t honestly say I did see anybody although I was lookin’ hard enough.   

Q.                     Looking at the object from the underneath part, what could you see there?

A.                     Well, when it was hovering, I could see those scoop-like protrusions, or
                        whatever they were, which seemed to be making the swishing noise.  After
                        that, when it took off, it was the bluish or sort of pale bluish color underneath.
                        That’s as near as I can tell you, as much as I can tell you really, about the
                        lower section. 

Q.                     And when it took off, what did you notice? Well, first of all, of course it did
                        hover, did it, for some little time?       

A.                     Well, I'd say for [a] space of 4 or 5 seconds, which is not long, I know.        

Q.                     Yes, and then after that it took off, did it, and if so, at what speed would you
                        calculate?        

A.                     Oh well, we reckon, Trevor and I reckon, a jet would probably have to add up
                        speed to match the speed.     

Q.                     And it took off instantly?         

A.                     Yes, flying from a flying start— you know, not a flying start but a standing
                        start — and very fast and very steep.

Q.                     It went straight up, did it?      

A.                     I’ll say it came in and went out at about the same angle of 45 degrees, as near
                        as I could judge.         

Q.                     Getting back to the appearance of the object, I think you said you noticed
                        something on top of the dome?          

A.                     Yes, it seemed to be an aerial sort of a thing — I'd say about 5 or 6 feet long,
                        and it did seem to be either chrome or some lightish metal thing.  Whether it
                        was the aerial or not, I couldn’t say. I was speaking to the other chap and he
                        said it was.     

Q.                     I know there were some cows and other stock in the yard at the time of the
                        sighting, Mr. Brew.      

A.                     Yes, we had half done. We were halfway, half of them were milked out and
                        the other half still had to go through. 

Q.                     What was their reaction to the sighting?       

A.                     Well, as I said to your other chap who was here, they done everything bar
                        turn somersaults. They put in the paper 2 that they did turn somersaults but
                        that’s carrying it a bit far! They certainly played up. I’ve never seen cows play
                        up like that before and they never take notice (quite happy before) of an
                        ordinary jet. A jet can go over and they just take no notice at all, but they
                        really played up this day.        

Q.                     Did you have anybody helping you milk the cows?     

A.                     Yes, we had Trevor there and as I said, unfortunately he never seen it but he
                        did hear it and he said: 'What was that?’ and I said: 'A flying saucer,’ and he
                        said: 'Don't be [a] so and so, silly, you know those things don't exist' or
                        something to that effect and I said: 'Well, this was a flying saucer, definitely.’
                        He said: 'Well, it certainly moved off the mark; it travelled twice as fast as a
                        jet.’ I said: 'Well, it certainly went away fast, just like somebody had it on a
                        blooming yo-yo or something, really went off with a bang.'   

Q.                     So he didn’t hear it until it actually moved away and then of course, it was too
                        late?   

A.                     No, he didn't see it, unfortunately, but he certainly heard it go.        

Q.                     Have you been interviewed by any representatives of the government?      

A.                     Yes, as I said, the C.S.I.R.O.3 were here and number 1 question as far as they
                        were concerned—he asked me did I get a headache. I said: Well, it's strange
                        that you should ask me that because I thought it was too ridiculous, I would
                        never have mentioned it. But I did get an awful headache just behind the
                        eyes. I never suffer with headaches normally and I took a Bex and I went in,
                        but it didn't seem to have any effect. It just wore off itself towards night—took
                        all day long to wear off.          

Q.                     When did you first get the headache?

A.                     Oh, when I was sort of gazing at the Perspex canopy business I noticed it. 

Q.                     It came on immediately, did it?           

A.                     Yes, more or less. Yes. Yes.    

Q.                     What did the C.S.I.R.O. man say? Incidentally, do you know his name? What's
                        his name?       

A.                     Er, Mr. Berson 4. Yes, Mr. Berson was his name.         

Q.                     And what did he say about the headache?    

A.                     'Well,' he said, 'that ties in with what our theory [is?]; we always had the
                        impression that it was...’ (what would you say?). He gave me the impression it
                        was electromagnetic or something to that effect—that's beyond me—but he
                        said that would more than likely cause a headache and it certainly took all day
                        to get rid of it, anyhow. I know that.  

Q.                     What else did the C.S.I.R.O. do?        

A.                     Well, as I said, he took away samples of rock—they were very interested in
                        that—because he said being a sort of an ironstone, it may have some
                        attraction for it. And there is the reef as I said and winds right through here
                        and it came over that reef, more or less parallel with it.        

Q.                     How long after the sighting occurred did the C.S.I.R.0. come down here?     

A.                     They were here about four days after and the Air Force about a week, or near
                        the best part of a week after that.     

Q.                     Oh, the Air Force came down as well, did they? Who came down from the Air
                        Force? 

A.                     Well, Mr. Murdoch was one of them, the only name I can recall.        

Q.                     Was he in uniform?     

A.                     Yes, they were all in uniform.  

Q.                     They were officers, were they?           

A.                     Yes, I would say high officers, high-ranking officers, anyhow.

Q.                     What did they do?      

A.                     Well, they photographed the surrounding country, that was the Baw Baws5,
                        Mt. Macdonald. Long distance cameras and took light, clouds and cloud plus,
                        you know, how much blue was showing in the sky—all that sort of thing.  It's a
                        bit beyond me, some of the things they done but, all those things.   

Q.                     Did they have instruments?    

A.                     Yes, they had the cameras and they lay tapping the rocks and took particular
                        notice of the rock formation also. Don't know for what reason but they did.
                        Yes, they said that after I drew them the sketch, that it was similar to other
                        sightings to what had been seen in other countries. It tallied almost exactly
                        with what's been seen over there, but they didn't think it was quite so big as
                        that. Yes, they said it was, approximately, to the best of their knowledge, the
                        lowest it had been and the best sighting.      

Q.                     That was in Australia, was it? 

A.                     Yes, from what I could gather, here.  

Q.                     Did anyone else come down from the government?   

A.                     Yes, I had the aeronautical expert from, I think [the] liaison officer, I think
                        that was the Sale Air Base. He asked similar questions and he wanted to know
                        if there was any engine noise, but we never heard any engine noise, not as we
                        know engines today.  

Q.                     To go back to the object itself, did you notice any light coming from the object
                        itself at any time?       

A.                     No. There was no light in the dome business and no lights underneath.       

--------------------------------

Witness’s original sketch, reannotated by me (CF) for clarity

This reference: Transcription of tape-recorded interview with Mr. Charles Brew by Mr. Charles Norris, President, Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society.

With thanks to The J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS): http://www.cufos.org/  

Note #1: Perspex, similar to Plexiglas, is a brand name for a hard, transparent plastic or acrylic resin. - H J-

Reference: http://www.yourdictionary.com/perspex  

Note #2: The newspaper mentioned is the Manawatu Standard of Saturday, February 16, 1963, which states: “The cows turned somersaults and the horses reared in panic.”         

Note #3: C.S.I.R.O. = Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, from a letter by the Division of Meteorological Physics to the Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society.           

Note #4: F. A. Berson, from a letter sent to Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society by C.S.I.R.O., Division of Meteorological Physics. 

Note #5: BAW BAW PLATEAU:

The Baw Baw Mountains situated in Upper Gippsland are an outstanding granitic plateau over 5000 feet in height visible from all places in that part of Victoria.

http://www.bawbawrovers.com/history.html 
AND

The Baw Baws are a block of hard granite, with eight peaks rising more than 100 metres above the plateau.

<Snip>

Baw Baw is an aboriginal word meaning "echo."

http://www.gippslandinfo.com.au/pages.asp?code=12         

UFOCAT PRN - 89815

UFOCAT URN – 074519 UFO Nachtrichten, July 1963

UFOCAT URN – 089770 APRO Bulletin, July 1963, p. 1

UFOCAT URN – 152177 APRO Bulletin, September 1963, p. 1

UFOCAT URN – 089815 APRO Bulletin, September 1963, p. 1

UFOCAT URN – 089816 APRO Bulletin, September 1963, p. 4

UFOCAT URN – 102370 Orbit (Tyneside), 1963, p. 22

UFOCAT URN – 036306 The UFO Evidence 1, Richard Hall, p. 140, © 1964

UFOCAT URN – 101583 Flying Saucer Magazine (Palmer), June 1964, p. 56

UFOCAT URN – 091860 Flying Saucers over Australia by James Holledge, p. 86, © 1965

UFOCAT URN – 106941 Flying Saucer Magazine (Palmer), January 1966, p. 53

UFOCAT URN – 036307 The Reference for Outstanding UFO Sighting Reports by Thomas Olsen,
                                        #140, © UFOIRC 1966

UFOCAT URN – 090563 Strange Effects from UFOs by Gordon I. R. Lore, p. 68, © 1969

UFOCAT URN – 069246 UFOs: The Whole Story by Coral Lorenzen, p. 238, © 1969

UFOCAT URN – 036305 A Century of Landings (N=923) by J. Vallee, # 563, © 1969

UFOCAT URN – 090525 Strange Effects from UFOs by Gordon I. R. Lore, p. 44, © 1969

UFOCAT URN – 036304 Data-Net Report, May 1970

UFOCAT URN – 071259 Flying Saucer Review, September 1970, p. 29

UFOCAT URN – 069401 UFOs over the Southern Hemisphere by Michael Hervey, p. 096, © 1975

UFOCAT URN – 119527 UFOs over the Southern Hemisphere by Michael Hervey, p. 117, © 1975

UFOCAT URN – 126448 UFO Research Australia Newsletter, March 1982, p. 24

UFOCAT URN – 113907 Keith Basterfield investigation files

UFOCAT URN – 036309 Project Grudge/Blue Book Special Reports 1-12

UFOCAT URN – 061743 J. Allen Hynek investigation files, P03

UFOCAT URN – 036308 James E. McDonald investigation files, #083

UFOCAT URN – 036303 Condon Committee investigation files, # 353

UFOCAT URN – 065076 Computer Catalog of Type 9 Cases (N=150) by Brad Sparks, # 075,

                                        no © date

UFOCAT URN – 169839 *U* UFO Computer Database by Larry Hatch, # 06299, © 2002      

Australia, Victoria

Mt. Macdonald  Latitude 37-17 S, Longitude 146-27 E (D-M)

Willow Grove    Latitude 38-04 S, Longitude 146-10 E

Melbourne        Latitude 37-49 S, Longitude 144-58 E (From newspaper2 article)

Moe                  Latitude 38-11 S, Longitude 146-15 E (From newspaper2 article)

La Trobe River  Latitude 38-09 S, Longitude 146-34 E (From sketch by witness)

Reference: http://www.ga.gov.au/map/names/         

UFO Location (UFOCAT)Latitude 38.18 S, Longitude 146.30 E (D.%) [Moe]

                                     Latitude 37.75 S, Longitude 144.97 E [Melbourne]

                                     Latitude 38.08 S, Longitude 146.32 E [Willow Grove]           


 



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